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- Oct 2002
#1602-06-2013, 11:02 AMLook, I have my gripes about how national and local councils operate as much as the next scouter. But the BSA is between a rock and a hard place right now. It's obvious......at least to me....that the possible change in policy is financially driven. BSA has always enjoyed support by the business community. Many of those businesses are politcally correct because to do otherwise would make them a target of activists just like the BSA. So in order to keep vocal customers happy, said businesses start telling the BSA that until they change their traditional ways, they can no longer support them financially. BSA has to make a decision of how to keep the lights on and starts mulling over the change. The other side of the equation is that the majority of the charters are churches....some of who might support the change and some who might not. Now they have to consider how much loss of membership they might incur as opposed to how much financial support they are losing. It's a tightrope they are walking. I would assume that the delay is due to having heard from the rank and file membership who say they will leave. I don't envy the decision makers.
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- Jun 2002
#1702-06-2013, 11:11 AMDoesn't the goundhog get to go back in his den and sleep till then? Sounds like a plan.
Letting the 1400 members vote at the national meeting has to be be better than 15 on the executive board.
Does anyone know who the voting members are or how they are selected? I'm assuming council reps.
Lodge 489 commented02-06-2013, 02:04 PMEditing a commentThe National Council is comprised of the following members:
All members of its Executive Board
Members of the Regional Executive Committee
Local Council Representatives (president and council commissioner plus an additional member for every 5,000 youth members)
Members at large elected by the National Council for 1 year terms
Honorary (non-voting) members as elected by the National Council for 1 year terms.
ghjim commented02-07-2013, 03:49 PMEditing a commentAnd who are the members of the executive board? And are they the ones who all these decades have been mandating the membership policies? Or were the put into place by a vote of all of the representatives mentioned by Lodge?
#1802-06-2013, 11:16 AM
"If I am following all of this correctly, at least we have a survey of the council positions, something I have never seen before."
How come I'm not getting the warm fuzzies with councils being involved? Ours wrote the book on can kicking and finger pointing. It will be another excuse for a non decision come May, blame it on someone else. It's not the yes or no, (our unit doesn't care what is decided, we will do what we've been doing) what bugs me the most is the clowns in TX letting this fester. Lets shoot this dead horse so the media can pick on us for something else, such as teaching kids to use fire arms (what the media calls weapons) or how to burn stuff.
Hey Wayne; how about you grow a pair, step up and be a leader.
MomToEli commented02-06-2013, 02:12 PMEditing a commentNow there is an idea. If we get pistol shooting into the Boy Scout program (not just Venturing) that will give everyone something else to talk about.
- Sep 2004
#1902-06-2013, 11:16 AMHow very disappointing that they would delay this decision; whichever way it was going to go. Shame on the board for not taking the time to get the feedback from their councils and major partners before creating such a kerfuffle.
#2002-06-2013, 11:40 AMChanges nothing for me.
I will continue to welcome all scouters and scouts irregardless of the color, religious beliefs or sexual preference.
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#2102-06-2013, 11:40 AMI am encouraged by this whole thing. It seems to me for the first time in at least a generation National is trying to get input from the entire Scouting family.
MomtoEli posted earlier this decision should not be made by outsiders like me, but by the insiders. I am in total agreement with that. But until now it looks to me
like the policy decisions have been made by a small group of people on the executive council. Now the BSA appears to be actively reaching out to the volunteers.
Now maybe we will get a real picture of what BSA volunteers and parents really want from this organization.
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Sentinel947 commented02-06-2013, 11:50 AMEditing a commentWasn't every member of the BSA at one point an outsider? *I'm trying to use Humor. Just trying to be funny* I can't get the face icons to work yet.
#2202-06-2013, 11:54 AMWrite something here
This software is horrible.
#2302-06-2013, 11:58 AMSR540 I don't think many folks would argue that this is all driven by the dollar. The folks with the deepest pockets have to most to say in this.
"Changes nothing for me.
I will continue to welcome all scouters and scouts irregardless of the color, religious beliefs or sexual preference."
Funny Basement, i think you speak for most of us.
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- Feb 2012
#2402-06-2013, 12:01 PMI saw this coming. The executive board is probably just as divided on this issue as everyone else. But the fact the it was even considered is progress. I don't know why they think that there will be any difference in consensus in the general meeting in May.
- The BSA acceptance of gay leaders in inevitable as more society is becoming more and more accepting of equal rights of gay Americans. There is not reversing this trend.
- ]We interact with gay people is all aspects of our society including our houses of worship, schools, grocery markets, the military, YMCA, after-school sports programs, Boys & Girls Clubs, etc. I'm not sure whey certain people are afraid of allowing gay leaders and scouts in the BSA.
- 70% of the COs are religious in nature but only because schools and parent/teacher organizations no longer sponsor troops and packs because of the gay ban. If the ban is lifted hopefully we can get Scouting back into the schools. That would be a great source for new scouts.
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Lodge 489 commented02-06-2013, 02:00 PMEditing a commentSchools will not sponsor units unless you also allow atheists in - it's not just the ban on homosexuals.
MomToEli commented02-06-2013, 02:17 PMEditing a commentOur unit has been sponsored by the same small church for 63 years or so. We have never been sponsored by a school. The Pack my son went through was sponsored by the PTA of the elementary school and met in the school. The reason the school itself didn't/doesn't sponsor the Pack is not because of the ban on homosexuals, rather because of the religious (notice I didn't say Christian) aspect of the Scouting program.
#2502-06-2013, 12:02 PMghm......so what exactly is that opinion????
All I am hearing is a roar of noise.......Everyone is screaming at the top of their lungs.
Nobody is happy currently
Keep Scouting local
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#2602-06-2013, 12:07 PMI am reminded of the quote, attributed to Pauline Kael, "How could Nixon have won? Nobody I know voted for him!" Maybe she said it, maybe not, but the same sentiment is here. One side says" How Can they Change this postion" and the other says, "They have to change the position"
And what happens as we "discuss" the issue. Replete with Slams, Insults, all manner of prejudgement and assumptions. Now the gloves are off. The taboo formally know as the Gay Issue is on the table. Tme to find out what our communities think. Both our Scouting and Larger Public Community. Each Council has to find out what would happen either way. Does the BSA stay with the staus quo and chance a rival program starting, do they change the membership requirements and then chance losing several volunteers and units.
Reminds me of an Ancient Chinese Curse, "May you live in interesting time" ...[ -- most peculiar, mama
One thing I have to say, when members of the general public tell you the BSA should change, be sure to ask them if they would give $100 to the local council in support, for the next 20 years. Vocal support is good, financial support is best
But we will all remember we are all scouters, and will treat each other as such
#2702-06-2013, 12:08 PMghm......so what exactly is that opinion????
Good question. My point is that for the first time in a generation we may find out. An earlier post by Lodge was that 70% of the councils favor changing the membership rules. I hope that is true.
#2802-06-2013, 12:14 PMand 50% of all statistic are made up 75% of the time
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- Aug 2008
#2902-06-2013, 12:33 PMThis was the WORST thing they could have done ! Who exactly are they getting more input from? As a registered leader for the past 7 years, I have never, not once been asked to give my input - fill out an online survey regarding this issue, etc... but they have no problem getting ahold of me for a FOS donation every year!
Where is the national meeting in May? Do local councils have a delegation that will attend? Can I send my vote in with the delegation, or is there a place at the national website or a ph number where volunteers can make their voices heard? If so, I haven't seen any...
So I call Bull **** on the idea of, "we need more time for more input from our members". Just who are they asking? Certainly no local unit leaders that I know of...
National - leaders you are NOT. I don't know who the hell is in charge of PR in Irving, but they (as well as the CSE) should loose their job due to the mishandling of this non-announcement. Either piss or get off the pot! Don't tell the public and your underlings there will be a decision and then decide not to decide. What a crock!
You think gays in the ranks goes against a "core belief". What about honesty, standing by your word? What about weighing the facts / consequences and making a tough decision, even when you know it might upset either side of the issue? Is this not the type of LEADERSHIP we are attempting to instill in the youth we serve? Is this not a "core value" as well?
I guess some "core values" are more important than others... the ones about where grown men stick their penis to gain sexual gratification seem to be the MOST important to BSA national. Certainly more important than being honest, forthright, dependable, leaders. More important than being a 'man of your word'.
No one held a gun to their heads and said they had to have a resolution announced today.... they did that to themselves!
Once again - BSA looks a fool in the face of a cynical buying public. And we wonder and wring our hands about WHY there is continued decline in enrollment. This baby needs to be put to bed for good. I know which way I personally would like the decision to fall - but more than that... I want it to be finished. I want to be able to discuss with scouts and parents what the next unit activity will be, what the next service project will be. Not if or when or what some stuffed shirts in TX are going to decide (or fail to decide) regarding an issue that has little to no bearing on the day-to-day activities of my scout's unit.
Very few times in my life I have felt disgusted because I was a member of BSA... today, I am disgusted by the organization I serve.
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- Jun 2008
#3002-06-2013, 12:48 PM
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