The beginning of the end of my unit started tonight.......The phone call I have dreaded happened....One of my Bible thumping parents contacted the COR about the gay leader in the unit. The next phone call was from a Pack committee member, if Mr. J is asked to leave, expect my resignation and the CM, CC WDL and BDL.....that will kill the Pack. I will have lost my second adult for troop outings....killing the troops outdoor program.
It is hard enough to recruit volunteers, good ones are like gold, harder yet to get them trained for their positions and then for them to do their job well. To have one person who isn't active in either Units leadership to be able to decapitate both units...........
I completely exhausted. I just don't understand the hatred.
I ponder my own membership at this point, At least we haven't paid for summer camp yet.
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#4603-12-2013, 08:31 PM
packsaddle commented03-13-2013, 08:17 AMEditing a commentI'm hoping the COR will support the current leadership and stand solid with you and the other leaders. The concerned parent is always free to make their own decision. But regardless, please keep us informed as to how this all plays out for you.
Fehler commented03-13-2013, 09:31 AMEditing a commentIt's the COR's call. Presumably, she signed the Adult Leader Application and in doing so contacted the references. If the parent is tight with your CO, it may be a losing battle, and just get ready to mass exodus in place. No Cub Scout is going to question why they're suddenly meeting at a different church, or why another scout didn't make the move, too.
DigitalScout commented03-14-2013, 06:14 AMEditing a commentI would encourage you to hang in there during this difficult time. This too shall pass. When the gay ban is removed, which is inevitable, then the extremists will hopefully carry out there threat and leave the BSA . Let us know what the COR decides.
- Feb 2013
#4703-13-2013, 08:08 AMI don't know that it's fair to label what happened here as hatred. I would see it as a parent that is concerned about what kind of influences their son is being put into contact with. Does it have to be more than that?
#4803-13-2013, 11:26 AMKnowing the Parent involved it was hatred or vengeance....my post from earlier this morning disappeared......
But the family are bible thumpers....Oddly they have known about the gay leader for 5 years and did nothing till lastt sunday when they went to the COR. So instead of moving their scout to a unit that meets their moral standards, cough cough, they are going to destroy two units.
The parent that started this is one of those that asked why the cub scouts don't go to the local conservation club for youth day, we can't because cubs can't shoot rifles or shotguns and you could take your scout on your own. Goes to the IH and complains we arent active enough....really??? When asked to plan or chair the event they are too busy or some other excuse.
packsaddle commented03-13-2013, 09:16 PMEditing a commentYour post from earlier in the morning can be viewed by selecting the 'Latest Activity' button at the top of this page. I'm not sure how long it will remain available for view but I just found it there, ICAII.
#4903-13-2013, 11:48 AMWhat is a bible thumper?
- 1 Like
03-14-2013, 01:39 AMEditing a commentA bible thumper is not simply a religious person, who has personal beliefs. But, a person who must enforce thier beliefs on others by quoting from the bible, and then interpreting (more like mis-interpreting as every passage has dozens or more different interpretations) it's meaning to bend it to their beliefs.. Then insisting that not only they must follow this narrow minded interpretation, but everyone in the world must follow it also..
Nike commented03-14-2013, 04:08 AMEditing a commentMr. D is the very definition of a Bible thumper. The term came into common usage in the early twenties, as far as I can tell.
dcsimmons commented03-14-2013, 09:37 AMEditing a commentNiether old nor far right. But I do enjoy firing up liberals who tell me how wonderful and tolerant they are and why I should take their position, then resort to ad hominem attacks if I challenge them on any single point. I also enjoy firing up conservatives the same way. You see, the problem with the far left and the far right is they are both so intolerant that neither can see anything approaching compromise. This results in a constant battle and a constant lack of progress. Life is not a zero sum game but the extremist on both sides fail to recognize that simple reality. We may or may not agree on things but it's those types of attacks that prevent constructive dialog.
- Jun 2004
#5003-13-2013, 12:43 PMBD
I understand your feelings and it really is sad that certain parents rather destroy an entire unit then to just move to another one that fits their own narrow views. IMO scouting would run a whole lot better without parents who feel they are allowed to be real PIA's just to get their own way.
- Feb 2012
#5103-13-2013, 02:07 PMBoy, you have a peach of a parent there, BD. IT sounds like he was calculating that it would destroy the two units ahead of the BSA vote. And he will probably quit scouting if the local option is enacted.
What are the chances the COR takes no action until the local option issue is decided?
#5203-13-2013, 02:12 PMJust hope I can talk the COR back from the cliff....
Lone scout program looks pretty attractive to me at this point.
- Feb 2013
#5303-13-2013, 06:53 PMJust curious about a couple of things
1. How do you conduct "scouts own" services and teach scouts to be reverent using the term "Bible Thumpers"?
2. Trying to understand the adherence to safe scouting guidelines on shooting sports yet your units disregarded BSA policy on gays for the past 5 years.
Just looking for clarification
03-13-2013, 08:59 PMEditing a commentIt is good to be called out by a cub scout parent with 3 posts. Your opinion is uniformed......Our council was one of the ones that had a don't ask don't tell policy till this blew up recently.
Pretty simple my man......People are not guns and the guy I know and have spent many nights in the woods and at other scouting events is not a threat.
When I met the man I had no clue he was gay....He became a friend and I determined him to be a great guy interested in the program and making scouting a great experience for his son. When I found out it was too late we were friends and even my ignorant anti gay bias was broken. He was just another guy raisin a son not that unlike me.
So how well do you know your fellow scouters??? How many of them are divorced? what was the reason for the divorce???? Cheating on the spouse??? Beating the spouse????? Are you sure they are not gay or lesbian???? how do you know????
03-14-2013, 01:31 AMEditing a commentHow is a Bible Thumper reverent to others beliefs if he has to enforce their belief on others?.. How are they teaching reverent, if they can not be reverent themselves? Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
- Jun 2002
#5403-13-2013, 09:29 PMA glimpse of the future, I'm afraid.
#5503-13-2013, 10:02 PMYou are probably right tcd.
At summer camp the white country and suburban folks can make fun of our ethnicity and sexual orientation.
03-14-2013, 10:59 AMEditing a commentMy unit has been on the receiving end of a lot of bigotry. From the country hicks telling my boys that rwaiting tables in the dinning hall is vocational training for them...To the cracks about watermelon served at lake games night......
How about a couple of my hispanic scouts getting stopped and asked to empty their pockets after leaving a camp trading post very recently.....
Ya know all of us with a bit of color in our skin are just looking for a hand out or to steal what you have....
My stereotyping the scouting community is what I have experienced. While we are welcomed at camps we are not treated as brothers.
eaglewolfdad commented03-14-2013, 06:45 PMEditing a commentThanks for your kind comments. The response was predictable and of course did not answer my questions as the answers would not help your agenda. I guess those new to posting on the forum should focus on mundane topics to avoid the label of "cub scout parent with 3 posts"
You would be surprised to "learn" that most units are a mirror of society today. We all have single dads, single moms, grandparents and of course economic and racial diversity very much like your own. Not sure that I have ever run across the characterizations that you claim your unit has faced. To a person, scouters have been interested in helping the boys enjoy a safe, fun, and exciting experience at all of the outdoor events. I have had the pleasure witnessing this thru 4 councils in several states.
As for the comment you and twocubdad enjoyed together "a glimpse of the future I 'm afraid"- not sure what you are worried about. Remember that every once in a while a member of the silent majority will enter the vocal minorities space.
I have actually been trying to register for the last 4 months with only recent success. You are directly responsible for my registering as I certainly wanted to respond to the callous discussions and comments regarding children with autism. During the waiting period I have read less than gracious comments about rich packs, children with disabilities. wood badge, right wingers. gay haters, country people, suburban people, religious people, cub scout parent, and the list goes on and on.
Did I get value out of my now fourth post, I suspect I did. Best of luck to you in the future as we all hope that you are able
to pull it together.
03-15-2013, 06:48 AMEditing a commentOh so narrow minded......Predictable as you say.
My agenda is to grow the troop and pack. Provide/guide them to a great scouting experience. I really hate all of the adult BS that is required.
Along the way I have learned somethings.
1. White folks treat those of color with suspicion and regional with hatred and fear.
2. When ever anything at a camp is missing or vandalized those of color are blamed first.
3. Adult volunteers are hard to come by.
4. People are people regardless of their color, education, religious background or sexual orientation.
5. Not all gay and lesbian folks are looking for their next conquest.....Honestly, less so than a few adult leaders I have met lusting after the camps life guard.
Bottom line is my boys know we are under the microscope at camp... We have to be better behaved mannered and more polite than the rest.
Now granted, we are a camp with 20 other units and we have problems from 4 or 5 of them..... The CD has address the leaders of a couple and the entire troop in another instance.
Far as pulling it all together....I am good thanks for your concern.
- May 2007
#5603-13-2013, 10:03 PMWell Packsaddle, I just got a survey and it's pretty much what you wanted:
1) Should the National Organization remove the BSA's membership restriction regarding sexual orientation?
2) Would this change to the membership standards affect your involvement in Scouting?
3) If there was no change to the membership standards, would your involvement in Scouting be affected?
4) In your opinion, what is in the best long-term interest of the BSA regarding the issue to remove the organization's membership restrictions regarding sexual orientation?
5) How are you affiliated with Scouting?
Question 4 was open and the rest were multiple choice. I suspect leaders are getting different questions than parents. Makes sense.
- Dec 1999
#5703-14-2013, 05:56 AMMattR, that one does look closer to my suggestion. Here's the thing about these surveys: if BSA is trying to find a pattern or trend in the responses then everyone should get the same set of survey questions. The one I got was different from all of the ones I've seen so far in this forum. From someone who is familiar with 'meta-analysis', the more variables that are introduced into the data being analyzed, the more difficult it is to have confidence in any resulting pattern or trend that 'appears' from the analysis. If these surveys vary from council to council or region to region and on top of that, as you suggest, the leaders get different ones from the parents.....there is little about this process that make sense to me.
#5803-14-2013, 07:01 AM>>and then interpreting (more like mis-interpreting as every passage has dozens or more different interpretations) it's meaning to bend it to their beliefs..<<
How do you know? Is any kind of interpretation really the problem? Several folks on this forum believe the bible is nothing more than an over-interpreted history book. How would they know what is mis-interpreted?
From these definitions, I think most of us here are Scouter Thumpers.
03-16-2013, 08:50 AMEditing a commentWell that is why I said "more like", as out of the 20 interpretations of the passage, they might have the correct interpretation as the writer intended.. But, then does the writer have the correct interpretation of what God or Jesus intended, or the original writer wrote in the original scrolls... Or is the Bible your reading from a more modernized revision, where the writer revised an English version to be more current English, but in so doing reinterpreted the Bible himself..
So even getting the correct interpretation of what the writer wrote, does not mean you have the correct interpretation...
#5903-14-2013, 07:59 AMthis is all adult stupidity.
the boys don't care that Mr. j is gay, of course we have never brought it up in conversation......But several of the boys have spent the night with Mr. j's son at a sleep over.
the next thing that is gonna get asked aren't you worried about scouts being at a gay mans house. While he is a member of scouting, I cannot control, nor should I, what goes on at home. My son has scout friends over to spend the night and play video games, not sure how that is different.
The boys just want to hang with their friends having adventures.....
Eagledad, I am a man who believes that Truth only exists in the moment an event happens......the second someone sees it and interpret it, to paper or speech the truth of what happened it tainted. Tainted by their station in life, education, and mood.
- Nov 2004
#6003-14-2013, 01:34 PM
Happy PI day!
Makes me miss Ed.
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