qwazse, I agree with your points. The return on investment to attend Jamboree just isn't there for the majority of our youth and volunteers. I know many units that can put on a better trip for fewer $$$. Attending a Jamboree can have a big impact on a Scout when he experiences the magnitude of a Jamboree and Scouting in person.

qwazse-your quote is from my previous post where I was attempting to defend Jamboree to someone that was totally discounting, and insulting, the experience of Jamboree and anyone attending it. I totally stand behind your and anyones' decision to not attend for any reason. I enjoy seeing alternative adventures and how everyone pays for and organizes them. I am glad you had fun at the Jamboree you attended and I hope your boys have fun with their Scouting experiences.

Tomorrows' response is ~~hardly~~ persecution. Here's the quote he responded to:

"May I ask a stupid question? What good is the jamboree, and why does anyone go?

I would not know. I have been involved in scouting since the 1960's, and I have never been to one, and from what I have seen and read about them, I have no idea why anyone else goes to what is apparently a huge bore-fest when they could just go backpacking instead."

What is most interesting to me is everyone who has been to a Jamboree has positive comments about it. Yes, it's expensive. Name one activity, done at a high level, that is NOT expensive.

As for the quote above-I'd say that's some skill to get that much negativity in such a small space.

First my scout is registered and paid.

I have very serious concerns about whether it will be ready for July 2013.

The reports of the folks coming back from the shake down are horrible. From the huge delay getting into the Site, the zip lines acting up and the female crew members who were not adequately clothed.

I received an email of explanation..... It was in not enough.

In retrospect I should have saved my money and sent him to the second one.

My oldest went to the 2010 Jamboree.
He LOVED the pre-jamboree tour of the east coast, he raved about it, he wants to go back to Boston and have the whole family go see all the historical stuff with him.

However, he says Jamboree was just huge crowds and not all that great. It was something he's glad he went to, and he's really glad he didn't have to pay full price(someone backed out at the last minute and he got to go for the cost of what the other guy still owed, no refunds at the last minute).

And he refuses to let his younger brother go to the 2013 Jamboree due to his concerns for his safety. H

e saw how much of the support, first aid, running of events, managing the huge amount of resources, safety, police protection/checking of vehicles that was done by the Army at Fort AP Hill.

He doesn't think that BSA volunteers can pull it off at the Summit with that kind of safety level. He thinks someone is going to get hurt and I certainly hope he's wrong.

He proposes that he and his brother will go together to the Summit maybe next time--we'll see....

Daddy always told me to never buy the first model year of anything.

I've been to three jamborees - one as a kid in '73, one as a staffer (world), one as a SM ('10). I had fun as a kid, but recall much memorable other than simply camping with my troop for two weeks. It was cool to see Bob Hope and the long line of 100,000 red berets marching to the arena was really neat. World Jamboree was probably the highlight of my Scouting career, youth and adult. AP Hill two years ago was a lot of work. By this time, there just wasn't much I had not seen, the crowd were just annoying and the whole site too dang big and spread out.

I'm hopeful that The Summit will fix a lot of the structural problems AP Hill had, namely size and distances. The program is much more like WJ and I think will be an improvement. And this is just my pre-conceived negative impression, but I would anticipate Woodstockesque conditions (reports of inappropriatly-clad Venturers reinforces that -- although those rumors may be part of a genius marketing plan to attract more attendees.)

I don't think BSA could have done any worse a job of promoting Jamboree. I had an opportunity to go on staff, but everything which came out of national pushed the notion that staffing was being cut drastically and there was a time when it was thought our program area would be eliminated entirely. I decided early on that since staff slots would be at a premium and I was fairly luke-warm about the whole thing, I'd let someone more enthusiastic have the space. Of course, now they're scrambling for help.

And of course the repeated warnings to expect more "primative" conditions than what we were accustomed to at AP Hill didn't help. Which brought me back to Daddy's advice.

5-yr, I will say I think you son's concerns are ill founded. If he were talking about the 2005 jamboree, with the Presidential Death March, he would be correct. Of course that WAS at AP Hill with all the military resources. In the first place, I'll give the national health & safety guys credit for solving a lot of problems between '05 and '10 (although I think their obsession with weight is misfounded). I also think a lot of the stuff the military handled will be solved by the the new site. A lot of the military presence was related to security BECAUSE it was fairly accessible a military base and dealing with the enormous visitor traffic, which is supposed to be much more restricted.

"female crew members who were not adequately clothed."
"reports of inappropriatly-clad Venturers"

Would anyone like to expand on these two statements?

My bias is to make Scouting an affordable and relatively low budget program. If a family is motivated to do expensive activities for their son, they are welcome to do so, but that not something I'm inclined to work at.

I have my doubts about the huge Scouting Disneyland programs and projects that seem to be the obsession of BSA national. The cost of maintenance being what it is, it seems likely to be a black hole sucking up dollars.

Just not something I'm interested in. I'm working to get a new Tiger Cub Den up and running, to get a Webelos Den doing more adventurous activities, and to promote Cub Scout and Boy Scout recruiting and membership.

2c and 2morrow,

Of course it wasn't persecution! Please take the hyperbole in a light-hearted spirit.
All I'm trying to do is make practical use of that negativity. We have folks on the fence about going, and a list of cons would help. But rather than interrupting every thread that talks about transportation and the like, y'all can ask me to core dump here.

Seems to be working,

shorts were way too short.....and tops way too low.....The attire really disrupted the troop when ever they walked by.

Yep seen the pictures.

the comment from the adult was I wonder when the first youth member will conceive at the jamboree.

BD, this is something that National had better take serious. I hear enough from the moms upset about the teen girl lifeguards in Lycra one piece suits at summer camp. :/

I understand this is the first time for the Jamboree at the Summit and that's why I want to be there. I will be on staff and I want to be be able to say, I was there at the first one. Maybe its silly, many I am sure will say so, but how many times to you get to be amoung the first ones to do somehting of this magnitude. There certainly is a chance it could be an unitigated diaster, don't you want to be there and be able to say "I was there and this is what I saw" other than "I heard"?

I see this as one of the greatest adventures possible, this is the total unknown, its never been done why wouldnt you want to be a part of that?

Now, to cost, that part sucks. National and International Jamborees have been part of scouting since B-P started things and I don't think they were ever "Cheap" or inexpensive. Its part of the program and attend if you want or not. But I am thinking, in 20 years when Jamboree time rolls around, how many will be able to say,

Jamboree? At the SUmmit? I was at the first one and forget about what you heard, this is what I saw

I can't wait, it will be a great time

Modesty among venturers ... it's a thread in itself, but ...
The Baltimore Ravens Cheerleaders performed at last Jambo.
So that ship of discretion has already sailed!

A very early rule I learned as SM was "Never go to the first week of camp. Never go to the last week of camp. NEVER go to the first week of a brand new camp.

2013 Jamboree (and I wish them well) has practically every element of everything I have learned to stay away from.

I went to the 1969 Jambo as an SM and the 2010 one as staff. Enjoyed every minute of both.

Thanks and luck to those hardy souls who are brave enough to go where no Scouts have gone before. (This message has been edited by kahuna)