My theory is that the form is trying to stop an unscrupulous individual from running his own child labor troop. Because having to file this form would pretty much be the one thing that would stop that from happening.

The straightforward answer is that the council would want to see there was a reasonable need for the money being raised. My question is, why would a troop object to providing this data?

The Troop that I serve has just begun using this form when we do unit fundraisers.
I too, question the need of the council to know how much we have in our treasury, and what our dues are, etc.
We sell popcorn, and as a unit, we might sell $1000 worth of the stuff. After the council takes their cut, the scouts get very little for their own scout accounts to help pay for outings and summer camp.
Therefore,we have an annual sub sale,so that the boys can actually make some decent money, and help pay for summer camp.
We do this every year, and time it so that boys who need camperships, know how much to apply for.
We do this fundraiser because selling popcorn in our neck of the woods is a joke.
Council doesn't query us about our Troop financials when it comes time to sell popcorn, so why do they need to know our financial status when we are trying to provide the scouts an opportunity to pay their own way?

BTW, I don't object to submitting the form, I just think that the query about Troop finances is a bit far reaching.(This message has been edited by ASM162)

Your Council probably doesn't need to know, but it'd be good information if your District Finance Committee is looking over it. They're far more apt to take into consideration everything you're doing to see if you're overkilling it.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I am mistaken, but my understanding is that the role of the district finance committee is not to micromanage individual unit finances, but rather to manage the district's finances.

>>>>Your Council probably doesn't need to know, but it'd be good information if your District Finance Committee is looking over it. They're far more apt to take into consideration everything you're doing to see if you're overkilling it.

In my area, there is a pack that I could completely understand see those questions being asked.

This pack is a new pack whose leadership broke off from our pack. (It was a needed thing as our pack had members driving from 15 miles away due to their not being a closer alternative)

Things is, tose leaders could burn through some money extremely fast. For some reason, I could buy 4 packs of hotdogs,5 packs of buns, 3 bags of chips, and 5 gallons of tea for around $20.00 . THose other members would turn in $52.00 worth of reciepts for the same thing.

Beats me as to how.

I support the new pack and even went and bought 4 plates at their BBQ fundraiser. A week later, talking to another leader within that new pack..I learned that the (husband/wife) CC and CM burnet through $3,000.00 in 3 weeks. What did they buy?

WEll..nobody really knows, but are being told it was a fireprof safe for paperwork, and the rest went to admin supplies and paerwork and council fes.

Dues? $75.00 to join the pack PLUS council fees.

Thats why those questions are asked:

Scouts pay twice as much as our unit, have nothing to show for it, fundraiser brings in $3,000.00 that went poof after the CC/CM walked away with it! ?

Incidentally, that pack now has only 2 dens consisting of 6 boys.
WE had several people come back to us because the pack never did anything and the CC was hostile and agressive to anybody who didn't see 100% eye to eye . 3 DL's quit under the accusations they were not "Good Christinas" when they disagreed with the CC.

So:
1)Is this pack on a budget? Who knows, you'd be "unChristain if you ask ".

2) How much dues is the scout paying? $&5.00 ( not councting council /national fees.

3)How much money is in units treasury? Who knows, nobody has heard or seen anything to show for it except "Trust us, we have it where it needs to be and you don't have to know....and you are a heathen if you don't trust us!"


As for most units, it means nothing.

Turn over your Unit Money-Earning Application, to the Guides to Money-Earning Projects on the back.

Checkpoint #1 -
Do you really need a fund-raising project?

There should be a real need for raising money
based on your units program. Units should not
engage in money-earning projects merely because
someone has offered an attractive plan. Remember
that individual youth members are expected to earn
their own way. The need should be beyond normal
budget items covered by dues.

THAT is why the questions are on the front about the units budget, and treasury.


And at the bottom, in large, bold, underlined, typeface -

The local council is responsible for upholding the Charter and By-laws and the
Rules and Regulations of the BSA. To ensure compliance, all unit fund-raisers
MUST OBTAIN WRITTEN APPROVAL from the local council NO LESS THAN 14
DAYS before the fund-raising activity.

If the approval is not received from your council before the date of your money-earning activity, you are NOT supposed to hold it.

It is no big deal to fill out the form and turn it in (in my council). I think it is just a way to make sure your fundraiser is legal and legitamate. Think of it as a second set of eyes to make sure the Scouts and the Troop are protected. I wish they would look at them harder.

Scoutfish said:
>>I learned that the (husband/wife) CC and CM burnet through $3,000.00 in 3 weeks. What did they buy?

Yeah, I think most of us agree the info is unnecessary for the council to require.

There has been much more mixed advice on the "two signatures per check" - many of us have stated that that creates a logistical hassle for little/no benefit.

Everyone agrees the financial information should be available at the committee meetings, there should be transparency, the bank statements should be available, and that significant purchases should be agreed on by the committee.

The story about the pack with the husband wife team deserves more discussion.

Non profits are always getting ripped off -- much more than other types of organizations. There is always a high level of trust, but separating financial functions and responsibilities is a common sense measure. I have always recommended that the committee chair, unit leader, and treasurer all come from different households. I also recommend having dual signature control on the bank account. Requiring frequent treasurer reports also is an important internal control mechanism. Anybody who is offended by this should be disqualified from the leadership position.

Well, Like I said, they started their own pack.

At our pack, the CM,COR, CC, and Treasurer and such are all non related. No husband wife teams.

WE require 2 signatures on the ckecks, and if it;s a reimbursment check to one of the 3 signature cards, the other two must sign it.

We have full written and oral disclosure on treasury issues at all meetings.

Thwo two who left us were DL and committee members. Since they strated up their own pack, they are combo CC, CM, Treasurer,COr.

It's just a matter of time before that pack folds or burns.

I had thought that perhaps the reason for the application was to ensure the unit wasn't bypassing the fundraisers the Council shares in (popcorn, candy, pepperoni sticks out in my neck of the woods) and doing their own thing instead.

On a related note...what IS to stop a unit from deciding not to participate in the fundraisers the council takes a piece of and instead do their own thing? Yes, I know the council uses the money for things they say they need money for (not going there), so I'm not advocating the position, just curious to see if there is any kind of control mechanism.

I started wondering when I organized our Pack's spring fundraising drive and saw how much of a cut got taken of the profits before we saw any of the money...

The unit money-earning application does not ask about unit participation in council sponsored money-earning activities.

I know of no BSA council that requires participation in council money-earning activities before they will approve unit money-earning activities.