"Is your unit on the budget plan?" - Yes
"How much are dues?" - Enough to cover advancement and awards
"How much is in your unit treasury?" - Enough to cover next recharter

Sorry, couldn't help it

This is just my opinion from applications that I have submitted - the Council wants to know that you're planning your program far enough in advance to be prepared for program expenses.

A Scout is Thrifty, and Scouts should pay their own way. I know units who do their annual popcorn sale, then use the proceeds throughout the rest of the year to pay for EVERYTHING - recharter, handbooks, awards, camping, Pinewood Derby...the families do not pay one red cent. Those Packs have lots of troubles.

The Council just wants to know that the Unit is responsible with its funds, and not just running fundraisers willy-nilly.

Maybe also so they know to hit you up for a big donation

" I know units who do their annual popcorn sale, then use the proceeds throughout the rest of the year to pay for EVERYTHING - recharter, handbooks, awards, camping, Pinewood Derby...the families do not pay one red cent."

And what is wrong with that? Most councils will tell you as an incentive to sell, that you can pay for rcharter, camping trips, events, awards, uniforms, ect....if you sell enough popcorn.

It's part of the intention of the plan. Of course, the more you sell, the more the council gets!

And families do pay. You don't think cub scouts walk to the pack meetings, den meetings, meet up whereever they sell popcorn or when they go camping do you?

And who are the DL's, ADL's, Committee and CM?

They are parents too! They put in twice as much work as the scout for every unit of popcorn sold!

Bluejacket: LOVE those answers!

Scoutfish: BUT..Popcorn doesn't require a fundraising application! Guess council doesn't care how you spend your money if they're getting a piece of the action, huh? (sarcasm button OFF).
(This message has been edited by FrankScout)

Yeah, I know, but I was just replying to BlueJackets lamment about what units use popcorn money for.

As for coincil asking those questions, maybe ( and I am guessing) it helps them to understand if a unit goes off the wall with fundraising and or has contoll of their budget.

Last year, one of these thrads made mention of a troop with $60,000 in the bank. I kid you not! That troop shouldn't need to hold a fundraiser and the council might give them a talk about using money instead of just raising and saving it.

Also, could be that your unit doesn't have a budget due to new inexperienced leadership. They might just want to raise money and spend it left and right withour realizing that next years new recruits will be starting before rcharter fees are collected. Does the unit have the money to teach and enetertain the scouts until dues time comes around?

Can unit go ahead and reserve a camp spot or event ( some require 6 months notice) until scouts get money in

And lastly, could be the council will tell the DE that you are prime and ripe for a FOS visit!

So Frank and Jacket....Your going to give less than truthful answers on your forms?????

I maybe an a..hole but I am completely honest. I never lie on apps....Tell them what they want to know....If I am going to lie about it I would never fill it out.

So what if you don't fill it out....worst case they give the COR, IH and CC a slap on the wrist.... Embarrassing.....but no biggy.

Our council will not approve your fundraising app unless you sell popcorn. their policy.

It is my opinion that the troop should never have more than a couple of grand in the bank, above your scout account obligations.

here is a couple of thread that fish mentioned......

60k in this case http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=196328

more than 73k in this case http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=342192

There are more than a few wealthy scouters on this board....I bet they are a shamed at what they have in their troop bank accounts...

Have half of your unit set up a lemonade stand in "civilian" clothes and the other half set up 100 yards away in their field uniform and see who raises more funds.

That is why the BSA has a vested interest in how their brand, not yours, is being used to raise funds for your unit - and not them. They don't necessarily expect a cut from your fundraiser but they don't want to catch flack from the "fruit smoothie" store that lost business because you set up your lemonade stand next to their store.

Base... just tongue-in-cheek on those application form questions.

Scoutfish...nothing wrong, in principle, with paying for as much as you can with the popcorn fundraising. But when you take it to the extreme that any boy can join the unit for free, and participate all year in unit events for free? There's no investment therefore no obligation from the youth or the family.

Obviously there are some families, where the opportunity to participate is a good thing and those families should be assisted. But to make it blanket across the whole unit...trouble.

New Year's Day, you joined a free gym. How much effort are you going to put into it?

How much more effort if the membership fee was $75 a month, and you had to pre-pay 6 months in advance?

Raising funds via popcorn sales is not effortless!

For our troop, we gave parents who were cash poor a chance to raise funds by selling popcorn. We gave parents who were time poor, a chance to open their wallets and provide funds directly to the troop. But via either vehicle, a set amount of funds were expected to be given to the unit by each family for the operation of the troop.

>>"Raising funds via popcorn sales is not effortless!"

Unless popcorn sale is mandatory folks would not participate....

First year involved in the Pack......5 boys sold $1200 worth of popcorn...No cost to the program.Pack paid the recharter fee...Pack was broke and the den leaders and CM were running the pack out of Pocket.

Second year the sale was mandatory...we had 100% participation and we sold $1400.....the same 5 sold 1200 again. the rest sold $150.

third year instituted a pack program fee.....near 100% participation and $10k in popcorn sales.....There was a buy out option.

Last year a repeat at $10k.

Popcorn is a ton of work for the Kernels......Storing, inventory management, storefront sales, blitzes....

Wife has told me I would be further a head just writing a check to the pack for their % and taking the hours off that I spend....For the hours I put in...the Pack earns $5 per hour.... I have 14 hours in meetings already and setting up storefront sales....

I know our troop has never filled out one of these applications since at least 1992 and maybe before that and no one ever called, emailed or slapped anyone's hand for not filling them out. Our troop does run on a budget, does sell popcorn, does have an FOS presentation and makes donations and does not keep a lot of excess funds in the account. We never have run any fundraisers that are "off color" or effect anyones business either so we are good stewards of those aspects listed in the fundraising app. I know some units have issues with funds, we haven't and feel it isn't Council's business what we have in the treasury etc and we do feel some of the questions are intrusive.
We have had on occasion, great fundraising opportunities come our way, ones the parents, and scouts really wanted to do and there was a need to fill in the community, we would have been foolish not to take advantage of these opportunities. There is always some place to use the money, one in particular offset considerable fuel expenses to summer camp that year and also re-equipped the troop's worn out stove and other aged cooking gear.

"I know our troop has never filled out one of these applications since at least 1992 and maybe before that and no one ever called, emailed or slapped anyone's hand for not filling them out."

I must confess, neither have we! Thanks for all your views, but I would still maintain that since the unit is "owned" by the CO, then the CO also "owns" the bank account. That is true in our case, the CO name is listed on the account, and their EIN number was used in opening the accounts. Councils are supposed to support program, and I don't see how it would be any concern of theirs how units spend and budget their money.(Save the FOS motive.) I do of course subscribe to the Unit Budget Plan and use it for both Pack and Troop. I suspect that our non-filing of Fundraising applications was dealt with in previous years by previous COR(s). I have never heard anything about it (I've been COR 2 years)EXCEPT strict orders from the CO that our books are open ONLY to CO members, Scouters, and Scout families. (And of course, the IRS if necessary, but that's never happened.) Another "golden rule" from the CO: "Raise what you need, and spend what you raise."

As far as the previous discussion of units with five-figure bank accounts: Ridiculous! But again, it's the CO's (and perhaps IRS's), not the council's business. I imagined a scenario where we would have $30,000 in our account, with 25 boys, and the CO ordered us to spend it before the end of the Scouting year. So I scratched out some figures...you know, the Troop would be living like KINGS and we'd still have enough for the troop to run for another year! (without the luxuries).