emb021
Aside from the title change I really do not see much of a difference between the two trainings. If the VLSC syllabus was used it is a uniform training no different from ILSC, IMO this is just more nonsense and unnecessary change for the sake of change from National that serves no real purpose. Then they wonder why Venturing doesn't get any respect, it is because those *&%$ at National have no real vision or even a basic understanding of what Venturing is supposed to be about. Kodiak is nothing more then additional leadership skills done in conjunction with a high adventure trip. Sorry to disagree with you but this is the kind of lack of direction that will lead to the eventual death of Venturing.

"Aside from the title change I really do not see much of a difference between the two trainings. If the VLSC syllabus was used it is a uniform training no different from ILSC, IMO this is just more nonsense and unnecessary change for the sake of change from National that serves no real purpose."

Having done VLSC and having read over the beta version of ILSC, there is a big difference between the 2 courses. ILSC was created as a venturing version of TLT. Its focus is on the crew leaders, not all the venturers, as VLSC was. It spends time on crew organization and positions, which VLSC lacked, and tacks on the poorly done servant leader training from TLT.

Whether or not its unnecessary, you need to understand what's going on. National, with their recent re-org that got rid of the program division, feels that the end-all be-all of training is WB and "WBjr", NYLT. Hence, they want both Boy Scouts and Venturers to go to NYLT. So Venturing youth training must come in line with Boy Scout training. So VLSC goes away in favor of the venturing version of TLT, ILSC, and Kodiak & Kodiak-X gets pushed aside as "just" experiental leadership training.

"Then they wonder why Venturing doesn't get any respect, it is because those *&%$ at National have no real vision or even a basic understanding of what Venturing is supposed to be about."

Its worse then that.

Since they got rid of the program division (no more "silos", if you are familiar with that term from the corporate world), we now have what I call "function silos", who don't seem to talk with each other. We have 3 people in different groups doing "venturing", and they aren't necessary talking to each other. And I bet the National Venturing Cabinet is frustrated, as they are under only one of those 3, and have no say over the other 2.

"Sorry to disagree with you but this is the kind of lack of direction that will lead to the eventual death of Venturing."

Sorry, but what are you disagreeing with me about??? I didn't express a view, just passing along information. Everything below "cut here" is from the original message, not my word. Don't assume you know my feelings on this. I've only really expressed them to people off-line.

emb021

Sorry to imply that you agreed with these changes, your last post shows me you are not too happy either by what has been going on with Venturing at National. IMHO, the way National is heading the Venturing program is in serious trouble, with a TOTAL lack of vision and direction. I truly hope Sea Scouting stays independent from this fiasco with their long history and scouting tradition. With these changes of mixing troop patrol leaders with crew officers for training purposes then Venturing becomes nothing more than an extended Venture Patrol which was not the original intent behind the creation of the program. One size fits all training does nothing more than dilute the quality of that training and the quality of the information given out since Cub,Scout,and Venturing leaders all have very program specific needs and questions. It really amazes me just how much of Mazzuca's reorganization of National and his changes in all aspects of the scouting program have been and will continue to be so detrimental to todays scouting. Too bad you can't impeach a CSE.

Couldn't the national executive board vote to terminate his contract?

Okay guys, spare us the Bob bashing. He's "winning" with the boys I know. They love him. (And, yes, they know he used a stunt double. He told them straight up when they asked.)

Anyway, it sounds like I won't have to hold a "crew officers briefing" anymore. If that's chapter 1 of ILSC, I make 'em read it and move on from there.

Honestly there is nothing in the old VLSC that I would not hesitate to use for PL training. So, I have no problem with making the overlap explicit.

So Kodiak's still going to be around? Good! Cause I still want to trek!

Hey can somebody figure out how to deliver WB21 on a trek?

I know Philmont did a backpacking WB with the old program. But you'll need a lot of extension cords and possibly a burro to carry some of the electrical equipment needed for WB21C on a trek

Power cords? Pshaw!

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/10/7-portable-solar-laptop-chargers-worth-considering.php

With those suckers and a portable projector, you can run your PowerPoint slides against the side of a tarp deep way in the backcountry.

Short,
You got me!