Around here the councils don't have the numbers to have more then one NYLT course per year, so they are open to Venturers.

This is what the current syllabus calls for, so its not an option for councils to run in any other way.

"This is what the current syllabus calls for, so its not an option for councils to run in any other way."

If it is done a different way, how is it stopped? What if it is approved by the Council Training Committee and Scout Executive?

I hear both of you. What I'm wondering is now that some councils have run a course (last summer), how's it going this summer? Sighn-ups. Staffing. Opinions. Problems?
Our council hasn't done it yet, but we're about to, and I just wonder how it's been received. Many times, Scouters shun programs and changes made by national. Was this a good idea or a bad idea? Why?
BDPT00

NYLT was not marketed to venturers in my council.

It's never been a focus of mine since it conflicts with our troop's summer-camp week, but I also have not had youth clamoring for lots of leadership development. It's hard enough to get them to ILSC.

They just want to go hiking and camping!

In general I would suspect that the crews who would bite on NYLT would be ones that also want to attend Jambo! They probably also have some superactivity planned this summer, so there wouldn't be much fat in the budget for NYLT.

It would be nice to hear from some venturers (or their advisors) about any experiences they've had with NYLT.

We have had courses with both Scouts and Venturers since they changed the syllabus to include Venturers. I am disppointed to see the patrol method wiped out due to including Venturers. I'm not sure why National didn't just elave NYLT for Scouts and do a better job developing the Kodiak syllabus.

We have both Troop leaders and Crew leaders on staff and participating. The course that starts in a few weeks has a young girl as the SPL (I'll use the term even though the syllabus has some other BS phrase).

I guess that's partly why I'm asking. Naming the "SPL" as the "Assistant Course Director for Program" or whatever made-up title it is sounds odd to me. Is the course still relevant to 13 year old Boy Scouts? No patrols; no PLCs; no Oath and Law, etc. I'm just wondering if it's been altered too much. I haven't seen it in action, so I'm asking.
BDPT00

Yeah, well, that's my concern with the current NYLT.

In an effort to include Venturing (which has a different organizational structure from Boy Scouts), I think they have changed NYLT to be less effective for Boy Scouts.

Yes, leadership is leadership. But there are different ways that leadership can be presented (this is something I've written on on-line in the past, but I see to get nothing from it).

You can present leadership skills and concepts as such. (whether its to cover situational leadership, servant leadership, goal setting, conflict resolution, etc).

Or you can teach people how to do their job. (teach people how to be the president, senior patrol leader, secretary/scribe, etc).

Or you can present leadership skills concepts AND teach people how to do their job in an environment modeled on an idealized group. (teach the club officers in an environment where they are organized into a mock club). This is how Wood Badge and NYLT (and its predecessors) were set up.

Problem is that Venturing Crews and Boy Scout Troops are NOT structured the same. So how can you mix participants from both programs into an idealized group that is relevant to both? You can't. You either have to put them into a structure that models a troop (which is meaningless and probably confusing to Venturers), or a crew (ditto for Boy Scouts being confused), or some third form (which may be meaningless and possibly confusing to both).

The better thing would have been to leave NYLT alone and create a form of NYLT relevant to Venturing. Fat chance of that happening. And putting that up as an idea will get you pilloried for being a mean, nasty person trying to prevent Venturers from taking the neat and cool NYLT course.

(forgotten in all of this is how many Crews camp such that their youth would really WANT to attend NYLT etc...)

I would have no problem with my venturers learning the patrol method. I could see a break-out session for crews to consider how the position descriptions would translate into the Venturing leadership structure.

Neutral language painted with broad strokes requires a lot more maturity to process.

Of course, we've underestimated our boys before...

My council just finished our 3d year coed year of NYLT and our 2d year with male and female venture crew members on staff. We had the opportunity to pilot coed NYLT w/ venturing in 2010.
NO SIGNIFICANT issues or differences. The patrol method is still an integral part, the patrol is called a team, the PLC is the leadership council and yes, we include the Venturing Oath on 2 or 3 days alternating with the scout oath. We also use a Troop 1 flag and a Crew 1 flag.
The SPL is the Assistant Course Director for Youth Operations and each ASPL is an Asst director for, Program, Services, and Guides. Troop Guides are Team Guides. Set your trams up in age groups and watch how well they can learn from each other.
One of the female participants out first year had an extensive GSUSA background and said "But I think this what I really want to do." She went on to staff in another council the next year.
The syllabus works. Follow it and the course works. It parallels WB21C and creates a truly desirable result when both youth and adult leaders have the same references.

Hotair brings up the biggest problem with NYLT "that it parallels WB21C."
The venturing crews in our council have pretty much ignored the program. Instead, as Tokala stated, we have beefed up the Kodiak training substantially to the point where we have had crews from outside our council asking to participate. The SE is fine with the Kodiak program being offered. WB21C in the opinions of our adult Venturing leaders belongs to adult participants who have a slightly more tolerant attitude than the teens would with the more monotonous and irrelevant parts of WB21C.

My son just got back from NYLT and they had only one Venturer, a female, attend from the entire council. The leader for the team she was on was also a female Venturer.

Agreeing with BadenP. I like the idea of beefing up or modifying Kodiak to make it what it needs to be for Venturing leadership training. I think primarily of the 13 year old Boy Scout taking NYLT. It seems really odd to me that the syllabus can be relevant to him at the same time it's relevant to a 20 year old Venturer.
Which raises another question. I think the 18-20 year old Venturers can choose between NYLT or Wood Badge. True? I don't see either program as a good fit for that demographic. Just my personal opinion. I'm sure it must be wonderful for somebody, and I don't care to argue about it. It just seems there should be a better way, and I think Kodiak could be it. In the meantime, it looks like now Kodiak is open to Boy Scouts. What for? I think that was done just to "make it fair." Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
BDPT00

it looks like now Kodiak is open to Boy Scouts. What for? I think that was done just to "make it fair." Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.


You could be absolutely right BDPT00. I have another thought on the subject. But, it may be skewed being I am from a area where Venturing is still the unwanted child, with few successful crews, and most SMs finding it unwanted competition, unless they start their own Venturing Crew running in tandem with the troop program.. I see it as an attempt to merge the two programs, and get boy scouts to learn about what Venturing is all about by having the two youth groups interact more with each other. Without their adult leaders hovering nearby to prevent their being attracted to it. Or, if they can not warm up the old geezers to accepting Venturing, at least they can open the minds up of the younger generation for when they grow up to become the old geezers.

But, the changing of the names was a mistake, a 13 year old boy scout needs more concrete parallels in their training, then an 16 to 21 yo Venturer.. The older guys can do the more abstract, and relate it to their program.. The WB program and NYLT are basically the same program, and WB has had Venturer Adult leaders welcomed for a long time, without the need of changing the names of SM, SPL etc..

U just said WB aw not suitable for a 20 y.o. NYLT is geared for a younger demographic (boys and girls, because so far nobody has relayed any reports where the coed/mixed program environment didn't work), so what to do with that 19 yo ASM or 17 yo JASM who is itching for a trek wants to do something of leadership training and only has one week to spare? Kodak seems like an ideal option. I'm not about to make a kid push extra paperwork to join a crew just so he could take a course.

FWIW, I was advising a council ILSC course and the young ladies there were very much interested in WB. Rather than pointing them to NYLT, I suggested they hold office for a year or two and actually lead. Then, as their experience grew, they would be better position to choose a course that suits them