sbemis,
Not sure why you would consider telling the older scout the expectations for participants would be considered rebuffing him. It's being honest, and letting him make a decision as to what is important to him. As much as we would like, we cannot have it all.
Some units choose to start the crew bonding with the crew training. There are advantages to it. Other units need not make the same choices, I agree that no trek will be perfect, but you can help the crew put the odds in the favor of having a great trek by preparing together, That benefit is HUGE.

To what level of mastery do we expect a scout to achieve at a skill before a t-1st requirement is signed off ?

My view: think with the end in mind. What are you trying to accomplish. More importantly, what are the SM/CC/AC trying to accomplish?

Scouting is set up so that a boy learns skills so that he can teach them to others. Those others are the scouts that come after him over the next several years. How does one become a leader? One prerequisite is to be repected by the others as someone that knows what to do and how to do it. So the question that you have to answer is what level of proiciency is needed that they boy is comfortable continuing to do it, and could teach it to the next crop of scouts a year from now? That is when he will be recognized and respected by the other scouts. This requires not only learning, but continued usage. The sign off on skills is merely a formality somewhere in the middle. the exact spot isn't important. What is important is that the other scouts can look to him as the guy to go to when they have questions or need help. Sign off of requirements and advancement are ineffective otherwise.

I'm starting to seet a picture as you add description to your situation. While I may not have everything right, Here are some thoughts. May or may not apply. I hope that this comes across as a friendly discussion, because that is my intent.
I gather your son is a recent crossover in a new scout patrol. Your son is not one of the popular kids, hence you have a concern that your troop will not give your son (and others with similar personalities) a chance to fill a POR that is needed for advancement.
You would like to see your son get an Eagle by the time he is 14 (in one posting you state the 13 or 14 is not out of line, in another, the troop your son is in scouts typically leave when they are 14. Hence it is important to you that your son not waste potentially 18 months without holding a POR.
Your troop operates with age stratified patrols rather than mixed age patrols.





Responses and random thoughts in no particular order: Consider the ages and stages of boys.
A new scout gets a good feeling from the recognition of receiving an award whether or not he put in effort to earn it. When he is older, he will not value awards that are not challenging to earn. This may be a contributing factor to your unit being a 14 and out troop.
A new scout feels good about having a title of a POR, but does not understand the responsibilities, doesn't understand the effort required. I've seen and worked with them. They see a PL leader position as one where they get to tell other scouts what to do and they have to do it. If they have not observed and worked for an older boy in a POR, how can he possibly know what scouts are supposed to do in a POR? the written description and/or being told by an adult just arent as effective.

I prefer mixed age patrols for a number of reasons, including your desire for more vertical social environment.

Scouting is a great environment for helping a geeky loner come out of his shell and blossom. But not if he is forced into positions before he has built up some experience and is ready for them. Otherwise, it will be continued frustration and avoidance of duties.
For the first year, let him learn and become expert at several camping skills – lighting fires (perhaps with a flint and steel), compass/orienteering, cooking, etc. practice and practice and use them frequently for the next year. Then next year, he will be able to teach the new crop of scouts. Becoming the “expert” in their eyes. The guy that knows what to do, how to do it, and is always asking them if there is something that he can help them with. If he does that, he will be looked up to and respected by the new scouts; perhaps even elected to a POR by them, or appointed as a Troop guide by the SM or SPL. That will do much more to achieve the aims and keep him motivated than will a rank that he rushed through, and have signoff on skills that he soon forgets. He will have real pride in himself as he can help the younger scouts.

The liikely alternative is that he will learn a lesson that POR's are necessary evils for advancement, where the holders do things that the adults make them do. Becasue a typical scout is just not ready for a POR before they are 13 or 14. I have observed this many many times. Don't give so much weight to advancement as the prime motivating factor. As your son matures, he will be much more interested in achieving things that challenge him than in things that can be whipped out in 6 months.

good luck. You may not agree with me now, and tht's OK. But if we were to talk 8 or 10 years from now, with the benefit of hindsight, you will understand what I mean.

Welcome to the club!

KDD,
SM should be having discussions with the SPL about the importance of assigning POR's to scouts that he can count on to do the tasks, over those that try to get by with as little effort as possible, but are his friends. A mature scout will recognize and agree with that. A scout that doesn't see that probably wasn't ready to run for SPL, and if your troop is getting that type of scout getting elected as SPL and/or PL's, more coaching is needed to the troop members on what makes a good leader, and the SM actively discouraging scouts that are not ready from running for election, actively encouraging those that have demonstrated reliability to run, and coaching leaders on what to look for in a scout tht they want to appoint to a POR.

I haven't worked with a larger troop, so I may be off base, - I expect that a SM in a large troup could find enough POR's such that any scout that has demonstrated that he is reliable could have one. Have a web site? Let a scout maintain it. Most cub dens do not have den chiefs. A large troop should have enough parents to give one or two the responsibility of talking with den leaders to promote the use of a den chief. A troop is only limited in the number of den chief positions by the number of dens in the area.
Though in a typical troop, most of the young scouts are still learning to be contributing members of their patrol and troop.

> Do you deny a POR even if a Scout wants to perform one, but doesn't have that dynamic personality to get elected ?

Look at it from a different perspective. Scouts are not denied a POR, they earn the right to serve in one, and they don't get one until they have demonstrated that they are reliable.
POR's shouldn't be given out because a scout wants one. POR's exist because the troop has a job that needs to be done on a regular basis. A scout that has shown that he is reliable is very likely to get appointed by the SPL and approved by the SM (I hope that you are not having elections for any POR other than PL and SPL; the rest of the POR's are appointed positions).

A scout that is unreliable (doesn't follow through on other tasks as a member of a patrol, doesn't join in willingly or volunteer for camp chores, whines about his task on duty roster, misses a lot of campouts, not fulfilling the duties of his previous POR, etc.) should not be given a POR by the SPL, nor approved by the SM. That is the scout that needs a friendly chat with the SM about why he didn't get a POR that he wanted, about cheerfully doing chores, about demonstrating trustworthiness, about how the troop needs scout leaders that actively contribute to the troop in order for the troop to survive and be a fun place for other scouts, and things he can do over the next 6 months to earn the SPL and SM's trust that he can be counted on to actually serve in a POR instead of merely wearing a patch on a sleeve.
THAT is the kind of SM conference and experience that can help a scout grow.

>If you do not credit the scout the second the parents thinks you should, they call the CC and then District or council to get satisfaction.....

If you have discussed vision of how your troop will implement the methods to achieve the aims with the CC, Advancement chair, COR, then a call to the CC is a non-issue, because s/he has your back. If the vision is generally following BSA program, a call to the DE may result in a visit from a unit commissioner, but they will back you also. Next step is a meeting with the offending parent(s). Explain again to the parents that their vision of advancement is not in line with the troop's vision, and that they have a choice of accepting the troop's vision, or of finding another unit. And that yuo will be happy to have the AC transfer any records.

If you haven't already been communicating expectations with families, start to do so frequently. At special parents meetings, at COH's, at informal chats with parents as after they have brought their son for a weekend campout and everyone is waiting for the patrol leaders to organize their patorls and get the individual and patrol gear loaded into vehicles. Note that other parents are watching what you do. Are you standing by the troo's vision, or are you giving in to an overbearing parent. Whichever way you go, that is the reputation that your troop will develop. Which will affect the type of family that is attracted to your unit. If you stand firm will lose some, but gain others that want their son to be in a program that helps him grow to a greater extent. If you bend to the overbearing parent, you will lose some families that have higher standards for their son, and continue to attract families that want that type of program.