I wish this were true but it simply isn't. I get the merit badge counselor and mb college point. However, if you go to summer camp and watch a mb class which is horribly instructed where the scouts literally learn nothing, and the counselor signs off, then there is nothing the scoutmaster can do if the scout (or parents) want that badge. Sure, we can have a talk about honesty. But what 11 or 12 year old is going to understand that he spent 5 days with a guy talking about Dead Island instead of teachhing him forestry? He's going to know he attended the class, wanted to learn, read his book and learned very little. If the counselor signs off on the card we cannot deny him his badge. We cannot make him re-do the badge in whole or in part. We cannot test him on what he learned before we give him the badge. If he wants it he is entitled to if by BSA.

I have had conversations with kids about such things and mom and dad eventually step in and make Tommy's decision for him. While my own kid gave back a badge that he felt he did not earn (was awarded achery but had not qualified with a 170 or better), I would say most kids are not that respectful of the process. They will check the box and move on...sadly.

And they point to other parts of the BSA program that have also been watered down (see thread below).

http://www2.scouter.com/forum/order-...uot#post277642

Right. But presidents win by a few % points BUT the number of people eligible to vote that actually vote is even LOWER than that. So what you have is a president that 30% of the voting population voted for which is an even smaller percentage of the overall population. In essence, we have minority rule...and look that that has done for us all these years.

I'd rather let private organizations be just that. If 65% of the population hates shot guns does that mean they have the right to dictate the membership policies of the NRA? Thankfully, no.

Didn't you get the note that you had to stay sober, celebate and straight all the time...even off the scouting clock? It was in the last national email.

...made up only because I worked in a distillery in college.

Thanks for doing this topic. Another wrinkle to my problem is that the TC is populated by parents who's son wants to rocket through and make Eagle by 14. Anything that stands in their way they see as bad.

So....

1. Don't mind the knots. Do mind more than 9. Rules say stop at 9 so set the example. Not in favor of knots not earned (i.e., West knot).
2. Don't mind temp patches on the right pocket. Usually wear the most recent summer camp one or whatever we as a troop earned.
3. While you can wear a temp patch high above the right pocket, it is pretty silly we wear your Jamboree 1973 patch. Sure you went, but really? Does a 50-something man need that much validation in his life? Wear the 2009 Jambo patch or your Philmont trek patch. Better yet, leave that space blank. I think the rules call for the current Jambo patch anyway.
4. Interpreter strips seem to be non-existent any more. I could wear 4 but wear only one. Want to avoid looking like Richard Dreyfuss in "Moon over Parador".
5. Service stars are another thing you don't see. Don't mind seeing those on scouters for cub and boy scout service.
6. Adult patrol patches tick me off. I get the concept but they are not allowed. Actually saw a scouter wearing 12 knots tell a guy with an adult patrol patch that he was not compliant with uniform standards.
7. Unit anniversary bars are for certain years of service. Personalized unit bars for 20 years of service are just tacky. Great you have a 20 year-old unit but wait 5 years and then buy the correct insignia.
8. Name tags, wish I saw more of these.

[QUOTE=Rick_in_CA;n374324]We attended a summer camp a long while back where the camp chaplain (eastern state, rural) was Jesus-this and Jesus-that. I pointed out that many troops had Jews, Muslims, Hindus and other religions and he should be more open. His replay, "Jesus will eventually speak to them." :rollseyes:

I doubt this is wide spread, but it is out there.

I think we are staying from CM Mike's question.

I'd keep the kid and his dad but put them on notice. Philmonth training and planning is a boy-led activitiy. If the boy leader is not leading then he needs redirection. If still not leading then he needs replacement. You cannot leader unless by example. If your example is not to show up then they picked the wrong leader. This, for my money, is when the adviser steps in and points out that crew unity is not good. IMHO, if you don't have it before you leave you won't magically find it on the trail. Best addressed now.

Am I the only one that finds the irony in complaining about camp food as being overly-processed and sneaking off for "real food", while at the same time pumping your body with overly-distilled libations that have more crud in them than the aforementioned "bad food"? ;-)You are safer with a piece of Wonder Bread than some of the alcohol you will find at any watering hole near most scout camps. ;-)

Well, may hit Life by 13-14 and then go off and do high school and eventually try to make Eagle in the ramining 3-4 years. This is pretty much how things work in all units locally. Common problem all scoutmasters have. Standing joke really. Those who try to tighten things up get slapped down are replaced because the unit loses scouts who don't want what they perceive as the additional work. I have taken the approach that I would rather have 20 active, interested, strong scouts than 70+ where 2/3 of them are in it for the bling and then good bye. It is for that 1/3 that I stick around at all.

Well, in short, we document everything well, make sure we communicate all guidelines and then, if they have an issue we have chapter and verse to point to. Thankfully I have a type A wife who does all of that (former lawyer) and so the bylaws and troop guidelines are tight as a drum and align with BSA policy. There is not much stress because I am a by the book guy (ex marine) so not an issue. I know the rules, the boys know the rules and we follow them. That said, I apply leeway when the rules (even BSA rules) run contrary to common sense and the boys have fun. We focus on boy-led stuff which po's mom and dad since they think scouting is about the adults doing all the work. My guys want to go to the moon? If they can plan it, raise the funds and build the means to get there we go. Philmont this year is 100% boy-led. I told the advisors to sit and take notes but let the guys do what they want. They did a better job than I could have done.

Back to OA: For me I would have loved to have kept 3-4 boys back. As soon as I mentioned that I was thinking about that one of our TC members called me to complain. Wanted to know why I had the right to do that. I told them I did not think they were ready, they were too weak in camping skills. They wanted me to point to where I get that power from BSA. Hence my question to BD. I am truly interested if there is a policy or at least guidance. Barring that, I simply don't want to fight that fight. If Tommy Crappycamper wants his sash, fine. It won't mean anything to him anyway. I am fighting for that 1/3 who give a darn.

Yeah me too. Seems that is not working.

I hesitate to post the guy's email address as that is a bit too personal.

I can tell you that there are several organizations who "certify" trainers. Red Cross, Emergency Care and Safety Institute, NOLS, etc. Many of the courses are very similar. I did call my friend locally who is a physician and scouter and created his course because of his passion for scouting and medicine. His recommendation was to link up with the Red Cross. They usually require folks to be trained and certified in basic first aid, advanced first aid, CPR/AED. He ended teaming up with ARC and they sponsored his program.

The BSA seems to say that any of the ARC, ECSI, NOLS or other programs listed on the link below will work for BSA "certification". NOLS, to my knowledge does not certify a competing program but may take your friend on as a local instructor. ARC does a similar thing.

http://www.acacamps.org/accreditation/firstaidcpr

Just out of curiosity, who did the survey and how big was the sample?

Having worked in politics I have actually worked with pollsters. It is amazing how they could get an arab to say the existence of an independent Jewish state in the middle east is a good idea if you phrase the questions just right. ;-)

Given the political polarization in this country based on the last election, I find it very hard to believe that 63% of the country support such a polarizing topic. Now, if you said 63% liked vanilla ice cream I might buy it, but not on this issue.